Curse

Still Number One · Apr 29, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19

The whole playing the game the way anet wants you to is total bull crap. It is true and I'm not arguing that it is how the game is being run, I'm saying running the game that way is total bull crap.

I remember listening to a radio broadcast the day the guru tournament was being held and listening to something Joe Hostile said. He said that people were trying to tell Izzy how to balance the mesmer because this is what a mesmer is supposed to do. Izzy's response was, wtf I created the mesmer I tell you what it is supposed to do. That is complete and total crap. I don't care how you intended something to be played, the players are the ones who decide how it will be used. Just because you design something one way does not mean that is the way it will be used. We play the game. Anet doesn't. We know what works and what doesn't. We know how something should be played to get the best usage out of it.

That is why people have left this game and why GvG is pretty much dead now. Anet took our game away from us and is trying to impose their game on us. Guess what, we hate it. It is boring and it is imbalanced as hell. Either start listening to your player base and give us what we are asking for, or start playing the game yourself. Maybe then you'll have a better understanding of how the game should be played.

P.S don't give me crap about anet playing PvE or something. I'm discussing the imbalanced of PvP and the reasoning behind it being Anet employees are not allowed to compete competitively and they aren't listening to the people who do.

oh and back on to the original topic, taking /roll away is dumb simply because it does nothing to change HB. All it does is make them use a different tactic. You want people to play the game your way, then make your way fun.

Rocky Raccoon · Apr 29, 2009, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by theryl2002

I agree with Kaon as to the fact that /roll should have only been removed from HB, and sadly I am also not surprised to notice that 95% of the people who posted here CANNOT READ A DAMNED WORD THAT KAON WROTE.

Here let me put a summarized version in CAPS so you can read it better.

HE ISNT WHINING THAT HE CANT MANIPULATE THE SYSTEM BY /ROLLING GVG/HA/TA/RA MATCHES, HE'S JUST POINTING OUT THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE WAITING FOR THEIR NEXT MATCH TO START/END/WHATEVER THEY LIKE TO USE THE /ROLL FEATURE FOR NON-GAME RELATED SITUATIONS. HIS ENTIRE POST WAS NOT ABOUT HIS LOSS OF MANIPULATION ABILITIES, BUT BEING DEPRIVED OF ONE WAY HE WOULD GET MORE ENJOYMENT OUT OF THE GAME, WHICH WAS CREATING A MINI-GAME WITHIN THE GAME WHICH RELIED ON THE /ROLL FEATURE. NOW EVERYONE FLAMING THE OP FOR MANIPULATION SHUT THE F UP AND TO BACK AND ACTUALLY READ HIS POST.

That is all thank you.

I quote Kaon "/roll was removed from pvp because in hero battles, players used it to decide the outcome of matches and farm the title quickly. How is this bad? If they have fun this way, why not let them be? I do not understand this fascistical reaction from ArenaNet. If people have fun playing the game a certain way and it doesn't hurt anybody, why should it be removed? Unimaginable."

Seems like he agrees that it should be okay for HB also.

Kaleban · Apr 29, 2009, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

You 'liberty' was a breach of the rules. YOUR way affected others.
The result of PvP competitions is made by COMPETING in PvP.

Sorry to disagree here, but I must.

It takes two to tango, right? So if two people zone in, one says "/roll" then the other player must agree to those terms.

Sort of like consentual PvP. If the other player says, "No, I want to fight" then the /roller is faced with either fighting and losing (inevitable if they depend on rolling to win) or zoning out and looking for another match with a compatible roller.

In either case, the non-roller's game is NOT impacted in any way, since they can choose to always fight and win against bad rollers, or get an easy win by a lame roller. And eventually, rollers would be made extinct by the larger volume of people actually wanting to play, although its human nature I guess to want the easy way. Let the free market take care of itself lol.

Also, there is no rule that explicitly states "no rolling" but that's the same kind of logic as saying ANet is against grinding, when all thats left to do anymore after 4 years is grind.

No matter what though, its ALWAYS a bad thing to remove an option for players if said option has no deleterious effects on the population as a whole. Its not as if having thousands of rank 12 Commanders impacts the gameplay world in ANY way, apart from them having one more maxed title. I think that heavy handed changes to simple issues constitutes a major lack of thought on the part of ANet.

oljomo · Apr 29, 2009, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

After winning 5 matches your rating will be high enough so you won't be facing rollers anymore.

Also, you are completely ignoring half my argument, which is on itsself reason enough not to remove this command. If HB is the problem. What has this to do with GvG?

So how come i was facing someone at rank 700 who was rolling? Im glad its sorted to be honest.

Sure maybe all pvp was a bit harsh, but something needed to be done

Quote:

In either case, the non-roller's game is NOT impacted in any way, since they can choose to always fight and win against bad rollers, or get an easy win by a lame roller. And eventually, rollers would be made extinct by the larger volume of people actually wanting to play, although its human nature I guess to want the easy way. Let the free market take care of itself lol.

yeah, but when you gotta wait 2-3 mins for a battle, then having it over in twenty seconds is a pain.

Shasgaliel · Apr 29, 2009, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

In either case, the non-roller's game is NOT impacted in any way, since they can choose to always fight and win against bad rollers, or get an easy win by a lame roller. And eventually, rollers would be made extinct by the larger volume of people actually wanting to play, although its human nature I guess to want the easy way. Let the free market take care of itself lol.

It is impacted. I never roll and half of my wins were thank to the rollers who left instead of play. That significantly damages my satisfaction from play. I wait to play and then comes person who instead of playing /rolls and so on. Sometimes I get 3 like these in a row. I end up wasting my time waiting. I want to play not farm some e-peen title. I payed to play the game. If I want to play dice I can do it at home for free.

EDIT: If you people would not abuse it so much it would have stayed there. ANET said it was not an issue. What was happening recently was much over the edge. If you wish to keep something you need to learn the limits. I also would not mind facing a roller once a while but more than 50% of games is too much.

Hailey Anne · Apr 29, 2009, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Why are we, the playerbase, not allowed to play the game the way we want? Why are we not allowed to have fun on our way? Why?

/roll was removed from pvp because in hero battles, players used it to decide the outcome of matches and farm the title quickly. How is this bad? If they have fun this way, why not let them be? I do not understand this fascistical reaction from ArenaNet. If people have fun playing the game a certain way and it doesn't hurt anybody, why should it be removed? Unimaginable.

Most importantly. This fix extends far beyond the solution of the actual problem. If you consider rolling in HvH a problem, then solve the problem, do not RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO over all the other pvp modes. Why are we not allowed to roll in gvg, tomz, ab, ra, or ta? Rolling has never had a negative impact on these playstyles. Why should it be banned?

I have had lots of fun rolling randomly in AB or GvG, just to kill time while waiting, or to do funny games. "ROLL FOR BIGGEST PENIS!" Fun. Every time I win HoH everyone gets these random items noone needs. We always casino roll for them. None of this is possible anymore.

This isn't really that big of a deal. I do think it's yet another perfect example of Anet not really having a clue what's going on and fixing the problem overdramatically causing much more harm than good. Something that has been happening in PvP since... forever. Also I hate it when a liberty of mine is taken away for no good reason whatsoever.

I payed 180euros for this game. I want to play it my way. As long as I don't spoil the fun for anyone else, why am I not allowed to do this?

admin request:
I see a LOT of spam in this topic. A large amount of posts does not reply to my arguments. It would be nice if they could be cleaned up so this thread doesn't instantly turn into a clogged up mess.

Why you ask??
Because not everyone has fun rolling.
If i go into HB I do it because I actually want to play it.
But then the person across doesnt so they just leave.
rolling to get a win because you cant do it on your own makes it extremely boring imo.

UnChosen · Apr 29, 2009, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

I hear 'red resigns' is the new HB rules. If you spawn as the red team, you have to /resign. Simple.

Another genius idea from the devs!

All people have to do is to follow this

IrishX · Apr 29, 2009, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I quote Kaon "/roll was removed from pvp because in hero battles, players used it to decide the outcome of matches and farm the title quickly. How is this bad? If they have fun this way, why not let them be? I do not understand this fascistical reaction from ArenaNet. If people have fun playing the game a certain way and it doesn't hurt anybody, why should it be removed? Unimaginable."

Seems like he agrees that it should be okay for HB also.

He doesn't actually care about /rolling in HB, he was just using it as another arguement try to support his case. It's not a good one, but that is irrelevent. He is saying that the /roll command should not have been removed from PvP, and I agree with him. If Anet cared that much, they could have added dishonor and removed /resign from HB for the first minute or two of the match. It would not remove /rolling from HB, but it would slow down the rate they accomplish whatever they are trying to do.

Sarevok Thordin · Apr 29, 2009, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Removing /resign from HB would do nothing, they'd simply map out or logout.

MMSDome · Apr 29, 2009, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

Removing /resign from HB would do nothing, they'd simply map out or logout.

Thank you for that in depth and highly thought up analysis of what people might do if the resign feature was removed.

You are a genius.

Sirds · Apr 29, 2009, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Well, OP get a point.
Although rolling is only one small part of problem. True problem is Anet update politic. They give with one hand and take away with other and this is very annoying. If no /roll emote was made, there couldnt reason for thid tread. But /roll WAS made and you cannot take this stuff away without affecting players anymore.
Pandora box is open, no way back. If there is problem you need NEW solution for fix it.

Kid (player): Mammy, can I have this candy?
Mama (Anet): Yes, of course.
Kid: yammm, yamm, yammm...
Mama: Stop it, you eat to much! Give me back!
Kid: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! Why you make me cry? You are bad! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mama: Shut up! Here is other candy.
Kid: Yahoo! You are great, mammy! yammm.. yammm... yammm...
Mama: Please understand, kid, if you not stop eat only candies I will call to doctor.
Kid: yammm... yammm... yammm...
Mama: Stop it! Stop! Give me back!
Kid: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!! aaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am in depression, now I need more candies...

... and so on.

Sarevok Thordin · Apr 29, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

Thank you for that in depth and highly thought up analysis of what people might do if the resign feature was removed.

You are a genius.

I put as much thought into it as you did replying to it ;o

Konig Des Todes · Apr 29, 2009, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Sirds has a point, the more a child is given, the more the child will want, the child acts to get what he wants through annoyance, and the mother always gives in. Every human does this as a kid. But every kid grows up and realizes his mistake when he meets younger people and they annoy him. Annoy and annoy, till he goes crazy and the men in white come for him. Annoy annoy, till he punishes the kids. Annoy annoy. Always annoyed.

Mr. G · Apr 29, 2009, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Are you suggesting Anet will come and kill the trouble makers in their sleep?

Oh noes! The poster is coming true!

Improvavel · Apr 29, 2009, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earth

I totally agree, except that I don't roll for biggest penis. They should have just removed it from HB, including the rock paper and scissors command. Then they would have to find something to fix the red resigns thing going on right now.

Or they could remove the HB title from counting to KoaBD title and not offer quests that give zaishen coins for it.

Still Number One · Apr 29, 2009, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Or they could remove the HB title from counting to KoaBD title and not offer quests that give zaishen coins for it.

Or they could actually do updates to HB that would make it fun so people would have a reason to play it.

IrishX · Apr 29, 2009, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

Removing /resign from HB would do nothing, they'd simply map out or logout.

Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing. I also said they could have added dishonor. Doing one of them would accomplish nothing, doing both would at least slow down the /rollers, since you people seem to care so much about them.

Eragon Zarroc · Apr 29, 2009, 11:13 PM // 23:13

lol, what's the point? the people who rolled will just find another way. red=resign? rock paper scissors? the only way to prevent this shit is to put dishonorable into HB, *sigh*. why put in an half-ass fix when they already have the system implemented in other areas of pvp to prevent this type of shit?

anyways, that's just a criticism of a-nets stupidity. i enjoyed rolling =). benefits without effort ftw. i mean sure, u can go in and spend 10 min a match for the chance of winning. or u can go in, wait 20 secs for a chance of winning. lol. even now with rps or red=resign, despite the fact that it takes longer and less people participate in it, it is the fact that it gives u the chance of reward with very little effort that makes it attractive.

people who bash it, idk. what's the point? lol. i suppose people just enjoy bashing other people. makes em feel all warm and fuzzy inside ;-) w/e, lol, if bashing people gives u an orgy, have at it ;-)

Apollo Smile · Apr 29, 2009, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

Or they could actually do updates to HB that would make it fun so people would have a reason to play it.

They could make it the most fun experience in the world and people would still do it the fastest way possible with doing any work. Thats just how title grinders /roll.

Kaon · Apr 30, 2009, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I quote Kaon "/roll was removed from pvp because in hero battles, players used it to decide the outcome of matches and farm the title quickly. How is this bad? If they have fun this way, why not let them be? I do not understand this fascistical reaction from ArenaNet. If people have fun playing the game a certain way and it doesn't hurt anybody, why should it be removed? Unimaginable."

Seems like he agrees that it should be okay for HB also.

Next I have more than 1 argument i'll make seperate threads for each, otherwise it is clearly too hard to understand for the average PvEr, this is proven by exhuberant amount of brainless responses.

But yes, I do think rolling should be allowed in Hero Battles as well. I stated my reasons clearly and it seems most people don't agree. I'm fine with that, in fact I don't give a flying RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO about the most boring game mode in guild wars. I do think its ridiculous that this game mode has now negatively impacted game modes I do like, without good reason.